1. AFT is Celebrating its 16th Consecutive Year of Helping Freshwater Turtles & Turtle Keepers Online and 22nd Year providing the AFT Care Guide. AFT is a not-for-profit charity administered 100% by voluntary staff only.

So devastated....

Discussion in 'Urgent Help Required' started by Anna C, Jul 31, 2017.

  1. Anna C

    Anna C Hatchling Turtle
    Bronze Level Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2017
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    22
    Hi guys,

    Sorry to bug you again, but I got home tonight and was watching Donkey in her tank, she has only been back in since late Saturday night.

    When she was in dry dock, I noticed that part of her plastron looks thicker than the other, but was still hard. I guess I was so worried about some of the shell loss and her wounds. After a day and in a bit in the tank, I notice the thicker areas looked fluffy after being in the water, and took her out to find it soft and peeling away.

    I have attached a photo, and I hope I am making sense, because at the moment I cannot stop crying !!! I will be taking her to the vet tomorrow, but just wanted to know if there was anything I could do in the meantime. It goes without saying I have her back in dry dock again.

    Grateful for any advice !!!

    Anna C :cry:
     
  2. Anna C

    Anna C Hatchling Turtle
    Bronze Level Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2017
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    22
    Sorry here is the photo... I am a wreck at the moment !!!
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Craig

    Craig Administrator
    Staff Member Platinum Level Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2001
    Messages:
    11,531
    Likes Received:
    578
    Hi Anna,

    Just looking at the photo and it appears that the old scutes are shedding and the new scutes on the plastron look as though they have healed well.
    We just have to wait for the areas of old scutes to shed so that we can determine whether the rest have healed or whether there is some shell rot present. To me though, all is looking good at this stage. You just have to be patient.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Anna C

    Anna C Hatchling Turtle
    Bronze Level Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2017
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    22
    Hi Craig,

    Thank you so much for your reply, I have been beside myself !!! I was just thinking the whole thing was shell rot again !!!

    You have put my mind at rest, and I will keep a very close eye on her for the next couple of weeks !!!

    Forever grateful !!!
    Anna C xx
     
  5. Craig

    Craig Administrator
    Staff Member Platinum Level Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2001
    Messages:
    11,531
    Likes Received:
    578
    Hi Anna, you're welcome. Please keep us updated with a regular photo of the plastron.
     
  6. Anna C

    Anna C Hatchling Turtle
    Bronze Level Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2017
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    22
    Hi Craig

    I will do !!! You have no idea how you have helped with your response, as I was beside myself before, and now feel like I can breathe again ! It has been such a long road for her recovery, over the last 6 months, and I thought that all hope was lost again tonight!

    I love her so much that I don't know what I would do without her. :loveturtles:

    Yet again you helped sooooo much !!!
    Thank you, thank you !!!

    Anna C
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Craig

    Craig Administrator
    Staff Member Platinum Level Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2001
    Messages:
    11,531
    Likes Received:
    578
    You're more than welcome Anna! (:shake)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Anna C

    Anna C Hatchling Turtle
    Bronze Level Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2017
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    22
    IMG_5083.JPG Hi everyone,

    I really need some more of your expert advice, so that I can know I am making the right decisions, for my girl !!
    I ended up taking Donkey to the vet, as some parts of her plastron, felt a little squishy to touch. The vet did bloods, and took some of the softer hanging off bits to do a scrape analysis on. She sent me home with a tube of flamazine, with instructions to dry dock with cream over night, wash her off well in the morning, then back in her tank for the day, until all the results were in.
    She called today and said, the scrape analysis didn't show up a lot more bacteria than her original base line, a few weeks ago. Then when it came to her bloods, she said she had a lot more blood than before (I'm guessing cells ?) and that her proteins were great. She said that her blood did contain quite a bit of fat, which could indicate her liver is struggling a bit. I am guessing this could be from the 4.5 months of antibiotics and 6 months of dry docking, that Donkey has just been through ! She said her white cell count, was a little over average, but not by much. She then recommended, that as well as the cream, that Donkey should go back on another course of antibiotics...
    To say I was devastated is an understatement !!! Apart from not knowing if I can physically give Donkey another needle again, I am worried that if her liver is already struggling, what effect another course of antibiotics could do to it.
    I said that I would like to continue conservatively with the cream, and see how she goes for a week, with the understanding that if she gets worse I can go back and we could start the antibiotics (no matter how hard it will be to give them to her !!)
    I guess I would like to know what all of you think, or would do, if you were in my position? I have included another photo of the affected area, and this is after 2 nights of cream, and you can clearly see the areas of concern.
    Sorry for the lengthy post and any advice you can give me would be most appreciated !!!

    Anna C
     
  9. Craig

    Craig Administrator
    Staff Member Platinum Level Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2001
    Messages:
    11,531
    Likes Received:
    578
    Hi Anna,

    If it were my turtle I would just continue on with the Flamazine cream and 2% Iodine baths.

    I agree that long term antibiotic injections can take their toll.

    I can see that Donkey is actually overweight and has a lot of fat stores in the rear limb pockets.
    I am concerned about the lump behind Donkey's front left foot in the front limb pocket circled in red. If it were me I'd also get a small biopsy done to see if it is an abscess or any other kind of infection.

    Donkey.JPG
     
  10. Craig

    Craig Administrator
    Staff Member Platinum Level Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2001
    Messages:
    11,531
    Likes Received:
    578
    Is there a lump of similar size and shape behind Donkey's front right foot?
     
  11. Anna C

    Anna C Hatchling Turtle
    Bronze Level Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2017
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    22
    Hi Craig,

    Thank you so much for your reply !!
    I feel like sometimes I am doing everything I can, and it seems she is going two steps back all the time...

    I will continue with the cream and baths, and would you recommend complete dry dock with daily swims, over a full day in her tank ?

    I am not sure about the lump, and whether there is one on the other side, but I will check and take more photos tomorrow of both sides.

    I will keep trying everything I can and all that is suggested, I just worry about her quality of life !!! She has a beautiful brand new tank with plants, fish and river sand just waiting for her !!! :(

    Many thanks again Craig !!
    Anna C

    PS... Yes the weight is an issue now, as 6 months ago due to infection, she was so thin that we were feeding her up, but know it has to change now !!! image.jpg
     
  12. Craig

    Craig Administrator
    Staff Member Platinum Level Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2001
    Messages:
    11,531
    Likes Received:
    578
    You're welcome Anna. I think Donkey has improved out of sight since you first realised that you had a problem. I think you've done an amazing job of fixing her.

    I'd recommend dry-docking her overnight then allowing her to enjoy her tank during the day as you said.
    This will help raise her spirit.
     
  13. Craig

    Craig Administrator
    Staff Member Platinum Level Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2001
    Messages:
    11,531
    Likes Received:
    578
    You will need to wash the flamazine off her plastron before returning her to the tank using tepid tap water, a soft sponge and some dish detergent like Palmolive. This will remove all traces of the Flamazine cream.
     
  14. Anna C

    Anna C Hatchling Turtle
    Bronze Level Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2017
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    22
    Thank you Craig, I am trying so hard to get my beautiful girl back on track !!!

    Sorry just one more question... so I give her the 2% iodine bath and then apply the flamazine, but do I need to wash off the iodine before apply the cream, or do they work better together ?

    I'm not sure what we would do without all of you !!!

    Forever grateful !!!
    Anna C
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Craig

    Craig Administrator
    Staff Member Platinum Level Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2001
    Messages:
    11,531
    Likes Received:
    578
    Hi Anna, just wipe the plastron dry with some paper towel. It won't matter if there is any residual of iodine left on her plastron.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Anna C

    Anna C Hatchling Turtle
    Bronze Level Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2017
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    22
    Thank you again Craig, I really value your knowledge and care that you give to everyone on this site !!!

    I will keep you posted on my girl.

    Thank you !!!
    Anna C
     
  17. Craig

    Craig Administrator
    Staff Member Platinum Level Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2001
    Messages:
    11,531
    Likes Received:
    578
    Thank you Anna. Good luck with her, I wish her a full and speedy recovery.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Anna C

    Anna C Hatchling Turtle
    Bronze Level Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2017
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    22
    Hi everyone,

    I just wanted to let you know Craig, that yes Donkey has the same lump on the opposite side, and it looks like another example of why Donkey has now joined Jenny Craig !!! She is not cooperating tonight, with the photos, so will try and post them as soon as I can, for your expert eye to have a look for me.

    I am happy to say though, that her plastron looks so much better tonight, and although I am not counting my chickens ( I have done that before only to be devastated) she is showing signs of healing already !!!

    She loves her new tank, and again that I owe all to you guys, for your knowledge and advice !!!

    Very grateful for you all !!!
    Anna C
     
    • Like Like x 3
  19. Craig

    Craig Administrator
    Staff Member Platinum Level Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2001
    Messages:
    11,531
    Likes Received:
    578
    That's great news Anna. I hope Donkey continues to improve and makes a full recovery!

    I'm glad that we could help you Anna and thank you for the feedback.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Aussiepride83

    Aussiepride83 Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    7,923
    Likes Received:
    799
    You're doing a good job Anna. Sorry I've not been responding to your posts, rest assured I have been reading them though, I've just been a little preoccupied the last couple of days with issues in my life outside the world of turtles.

    Donkey is in good hands, as are you.
    You're doing just fine.
     
    • Like Like x 2